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Voltage regulators and fitting Alternators

 
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frosty
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Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 3829
Location: 4559 near a big pineapple, Qld

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Voltage regulators and fitting Alternators Reply with quote

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/92/220821685_3252773876.jpg?v=0

As we have had some interest and queries on this important subject this is the start of a thread that will become a 'sticky' when completed.
I had a bit of a trawl through the various Morry sites around the world and have found various methods ... some of which seem different.

So ... please have a read through the below quoted info and let's see if we can get the actual correct proceedure

When we have the definative answer .. with pics if possible .. I will collate it all and make a sticky for all the people who are going to fit an alternator to their Morris.

This is what is currently out there
Do NOT follow any of the following until we have the correct proceedure

Quote:
Converted to an Lucas LRA 602 alternator to cope with the planned fitting of heated screens. I can't remember what car the alternator came off, its been sat in a cupboard for many years. I purchased a new rear mounting & adjusting bracket from EMS, bolted straight on and it lined up a treat, even kept the same fan belt. I joined the Yellow & Green wire (old dynamo field wire now plugged into the IND terminal on the alternator)to the thin yellow wire (warning light wire), and the thick Yellow (old dynamo output wire) (now plugged into the + output of the alternator) went back to the + side of the battery via the thick red wire. My regulator black box is not a standard moggy one as the terminal lay out is different but the colour codes are the same. Take an extra feed from the alternator to the battery, there are two large + spade connectors terminals for doing this as this one pumps out 70 amps.
When I fit the Marina pedal box I have the wiring will be rearranged and tidied up on the nearside bulkhead.
I have noticed that the engine revs drop quite a bit at tick over when the heated screens are on and the alternator is working hard.


Quote:
MINI site
Check the vehicle polarity before you start. Some late sixties Minis were equipped with dynamos but were still negative earth. Have a look at the top of the battery and see what terminal is connected where. (Negative earthed-negative earth!)

Disconnect any radios, electronic rev counters or any other electronic equipment.
Fit the alternator and bracket where the dynamo was. Tension fan belt.

Connect the heavy wire to the terminal marked ‘S’ or ‘+’

Connect the thin to the terminal marked ‘IND’ or ‘WL’

Locate the control box. Remove the black wire from terminal ‘E’, the brown/green wire from terminal ‘F’ and the brown/yellow or plain yellow wire from terminal D.
Connect these 3 wires together securely. Best to solder.

Remove the wires from terminal ‘AL’, ‘A’ and ‘D’ .Join them together too.
You should now have 2 groups of 3 wires soldered together.
Insulate the ends and secure them somewhere they cannot earth out. Insulate the terminals on the control box too.

Alternatively, if you want to keep some originality you can carry out this conversion inside the control box by removing everything inside and connecting the remaining terminals (as above) inside the box. This limits the chances of the wires earthing out too. .


*edit
Added 23/6/2009


From MMOC site 25.06.08
Quote:
Rob_Jennings wrote:
err?

The alternator should only have 2 wires, the thick main feed/sense wire (which connects with all the brown wires at the control box and ultimately back to the battery) and the thin indicator output (which goes off to the dash light) earth is achieved through the engine mount.

rough guide to conversion.....
ALTERNATOR FITTING
1) Bolt the unit on in place of the generator, noting that you have removed two wires from the generator ( a thick one and a thin one ).
2) Push the thick wire with the large connector on either of the large spade connectors ( usually marked “S” or “+” ) on the alternator. The small wire goes on the terminal marked “IND” or “WL” .

DYNAMO CONTROL - BOX REMOVAL
Locate terminal “E” on the control box. Disconnect the single black wire as this wire isn’t used.

Locate terminal “F” . Remove the brown/green wire.

Locate terminal “D” . Remove the brown/yellow or plain yellow wire, and connect it to the
brown/green wire disconnected from terminal “F” in step 2 above. Insulate the connection.

Remove the remaining wires from terminals “AL” ; “A” and “D”, connect them all together.
Insulate the connection.

What you’ve accomplished is this:
a) the thin wires from “D” and “F” now feed the ignition warning light.
b) the black ones from “E” is a ground
c) the remaining ones from “AL”, “A” and “D” all connect together take the output from the alternator and feed it to the battery.


28.08.07
Quote:
quote="adritch"]Spent the weekend replacing my wheezing 803 with a 1098. Happy days indeed.

The 1098 came with an alternator, and I have got a plug from the scrappy. Sorry if this has been asked before, but I can't work out from previous posts what I need to do (hence the title).

My dynamo had a large spade think yellow wire, and a small spade yellow/green wire.

Yellow goes to D on the control box. Another yellow (thinner wire) also connects into D.

Yellow/green goes to F on the control box and is the only wire connecting to F.

The plug I got from the scrappy has 3 wires. 2 large spade (1 thick brown, one thin brown) and one small spade (brown/green (I think)).

Can someone please tell me what I need to do to connect the alternator up?

Thanks in advance.
Adam.
[/quote]

Reply 28.08.07
Quote:
quote="MoggyTech"]Disconnect Battery BEFORE you do anything.

Remove Large Yellow wire between Dynamo and D Terminal of Control Box (you can disgard it)

Remove Large Yellow/Green Wire from Dynamo and F Terminal of Control Box (You can disgard it)

Disconnect thinner Yellow wire from D Terminal on Control box (Charge Warning Lamp) and connect to small wire from alternator (IND)

Connect Large Wires from Alternator (Both of them) to Solenoid connection that is fed directly from the battery.

Reconnect Battery.

Don't be alarmed if you need to blip the throttle to get the charge warning lamp to go off. Your alternator could be either 'machine' or 'battery' sensing, and sometimes it takes a little over 1,000 RPM after startup to get the IGN light to go off.
[/quote]


OK guys and girls ... over to you Blue Van




Last edited by frosty on Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:05 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Paul M
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Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 380
Location: Adelaide

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

I have just been through this process myself, I got the alternator from a guy in Brisbane called Tony Buttigieg. (Richard/Lance put me onto him).I dont know how Richards install went, but mine was dead easy and the instructions provided were very comprehensive. The alternator set me back 165, plus I had to get the rear bracket.
My apologies for the edit, I posted before I realised half the instructions were missing. I will try and find, and repost.

Cheers, paul


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Shawn
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 385
Location: Redlands, Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the procedures I have. They're basically the same. (1 source unknown)

http://www.minimania.com/web/DisplayID/1717/SCatagory/General/DisplayType/Installation%20Instructions/ArticleV.cfm
Quote:
HOW TO CONVERT FROM GENERATOR TO ALTERNATOR
The polarity of the alternator can not be changed, so if the alternator you have does not conform to your car, you must change your car. If you bought your alternator from Mini Mania, it IS NEGATIVE GROUND. The existing car polarity can be checked by looking at the battery to determine which of the battery leads go to ground.
The ACR series alternators are self contained units; their outputs are as follows:
15ACR-20 AMPS; 16ACR-34 AMPS; 17ACR-43 AMPS; 18ACR & 20ACR-45 AMPS; 22ACR & 25ACR-55 AMPS.
Alternators come in either polarity, however most later ones are negative ground, in which case the alternator will have a “+” sign next to one of its large output terminals.
VEHICLE POLARITY CHANGE (IF NECESSARY)
To reverse polarity turn the battery round and swap the terminals on the battery cables.
This will cause problems with tachs, radios, or other electronic accessories.
ALTERNATOR FITTING
1) Bolt the unit on in place of the generator, noting that you have removed two wires from the generator ( a thick one and a thin one ).
2) Push the thick wire with the large connector on either of the large spade connectors ( usually marked “S” or “+” ) on the alternator. The small wire goes on the terminal marked “IND” or “WL” .
DYNAMO CONTROL - BOX REMOVAL
Locate terminal “E” on the control box. Disconnect the single black wire as this wire isn’t used.
Locate terminal “F” . Remove the brown/green wire.
Locate terminal “D” . Remove the brown/yellow or plain yellow wire, and connect it to the
brown/green wire disconnected from terminal “F” in step 2 above. Insulate the connection.
Remove the remaining wires from terminals “AL” ; “A” and “D”, connect them all together.
Insulate the connection.
What you’ve accomplished is this:
a) the thin wires from “D” and “F” now feed the ignition warning light.
b) the black ones from “E” is a ground
c) the remaining ones from “AL”, “A” and “D” all connect together take the output from the alternator and feed it to the headlight switch and to the battery.
As you may have noticed the alternator probably has two large spade terminals, as mentioned “+” and “S”. These are both the same and can improve your system by putting in an additional cable between the spade terminal on the alternator and the starter solenoid. On the solenoid this extra cable should be connected to the same terminal as the main battery cable ( not the starter motor feed ). Use only thick heavy wire (e.g. size 65). This will make the system more efficient by reducing the voltage drop, specially when the alternator is putting out a lot of AMPS. If required, a radio interference suppresser, 1UF capacitor, can be connected between the “S” or “+” terminals to ground.


Quote:
Converting from negative to positive earth and fitting an alternator.
The following procedure is the way to carry out this conversion on a Mini. The procedure will be pretty much the same for all late 1960s and early 1970s British cars (I.E. Ford, MG, Morris Austin, Rootes)
Fitting an alternator will make the car more reliable as the AC current from the alternator is more stable than the DC from a dynamo. This conversion also makes the sometimes unreliable control box redundant.
Converting the car to negative earth will allow you to connect modern stereos, electronic ignition, modern fuel pumps etc. Also because of the way the electrons flow the car will not rust as fast!
Another point to consider is while fitting an alternator increases the reliability it removes some of the originality. This could affect the price of the car.
What you need:
An alternator. Lucas 16ACR (Or similar recon) is probably the most suitable. 18ACR and 20ACR will fit too but because they generate higher current they may cook the wiring!
Alternator terminals. Supplied with genuine new Lucas alternators (& reputable recon ones)
New battery earth cable. Only needed if the existing earth strap doesn’t reach the negative side of the battery.
Alternator mounting bracket. From Mini specialists (expensive) or from any scrap yard Mini/Metro (Cheap)
New fan belt. Not essential either but worth changing given the price of a new one. Remember the 850-1000 fan belt is shorter than the 1100-1300 one.
Kettle, tea bags, milk (& sugar if you take it). Essential. A key element of this conversion. Do not start this job without.

Check the vehicle polarity before you start. Some late sixties Minis were equipped with dynamos but were still negative earth. Have a look at the top of the battery and see what terminal is connected where. (Negative earthed-negative earth!)
Disconnect any radios, electronic rev counters or any other electronic equipment.
Fit the alternator and bracket where the dynamo was. Tension fan belt.
Connect the heavy wire to the terminal marked ‘S’ or ‘+’
Connect the thin to the terminal marked ‘IND’ or ‘WL’
Locate the control box. Remove the black wire from terminal ‘E’, the brown/green wire from terminal ‘F’ and the brown/yellow or plain yellow wire from terminal D.
Connect these 3 wires together securely. Best to solder.
Remove the wires from terminal ‘AL’, ‘A’ and ‘D’ .Join them together too.
You should now have 2 groups of 3 wires soldered together.
Insulate the ends and secure them somewhere they cannot earth out. Insulate the terminals on the control box too.
Alternatively, if you want to keep some originality you can carry out this conversion inside the control box by removing everything inside and connecting the remaining terminals (as above) inside the box. This limits the chances of the wires earthing out too.
That’s it. Your car is now negative earthed and has an alternator! Get the kettle on!



And this image: (this is what I used for my Bosch alternator)
*resized by mod to 600 wide


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frosty
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Joined: 23 Dec 2003
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Location: 4559 near a big pineapple, Qld

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT

More added to first post


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Paul M
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Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 380
Location: Adelaide

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

Further to my last comments, what Rob Jennings (Frosty's first post) says is how I did mine, the instructions I received were pretty much the same as that. I ran an extra cable directly from the alternator output to the battery side of the solenoid, as the existing wiring probably isnt up to the 65 amps capability. Tony supplied this extra cable in his kit.
I used an 820mm fan belt on my conversion. I will try and take some piccies this weekend.

HTH,

Cheers, paul


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